Investing in Firearms

I've sort of casually invested in firearms for many years.  I say "casually" because I have never investigated market conditions, nor have I studied what was hot and what was not.  I had an informal awareness of the fact that Lugers were increasing in value at an obscene rate and that the Python I foolishly sold years ago was now the price of a respectable used fishing boat.  

I have always like Lugers and other early German pistols, as well as Smith's and a few others. These were the basis of my "portfolio".  I also was fortunate to be the recipient of a number of firearms from friends and relatives over the years.   I was doubly fortunate in that most of these were in excellent condition and were very "collectable".   So these weapons are the basis of my Firearm Portfolio:

Manufacturer	Model	Date	Caliber (mm)
Sauer	38H	~1941	7.65 mm (.32 ACP)
Browning	High Power	1986*	9mm
Inland Division	M1 Carbine	1941*	.30 Carbine
Mauser Werke	Mod. 1895	Pre-War	7.63×25mm Mauser
Mauser Werke	Mod. 1895	Red 9	9mm
Smith and Wesson	Model 1950	1952	.45ACP
Smith and Wesson	Model 624	1985	.44 Special
Colt	Officers Model	1916*	.38 Special
DWM	P .08 Luger	1927	9mm
DWM	P .08 Luger	1916	9mm
Mauser Werke	P .08 Luger	1938*	9mm
Mauser Werke	P.08 Artillery	1917*	9mm
Mauser Werke	P-38	1943*	9mm
Walther	P-38	1944*	9mm
UBERTI	S&W #3	Modern	.44 Russian
Colt	Targetsman	1974*	.22 LR

The asterisks indicate dates of manufacture that are either on the weapon or have been confirmed by a record search.  All are in Excellent condition.  The Mod. 1895's are virtually new. The Lugers have some holster wear but are very nice.  The point is that any collector of these things would be happy to add any of the examples to his collection.

How has this portfolio performed?  Better than my stocks, that's for sure.  However, some of the values, while all have grown, have not increased as much as would have guessed.  The High Power is only about 15% more than I paid though it is virtually new.   The M1 went from (I am embarrassed to say) around $175 to around $1000 (I said "buy smart", didn't I?)

I bring this subject up because of a neat little piece published by our pals at the Rock Island Auction Company (RIAC):

Stocks, Bonds or Barrels by RIAC

It's a good read because if you are  shooter and own firearms, you have already invested.

I commented on the piece but will repeat my thoughts here:

Interesting, and in support of what I have been saying for some time. The main thing (aside from the good caveats that you already mentioned) is condition, condition, condition. Buy one fabulous Python (or Luger or Broomhandle or Mauser Pocket Pistol) rather than 5 Fair Condition C&R .45s. The rate of increase for the good stuff will be jaw dropping, the other stuff will appreciate but it may take a lot more time.

I have a rule of thumb: if you buy a firearm intelligently (ie. used, good price etc) you will be, on average, at break even in 12-18 months. In 2-3 years you will show a healthy profit.

Finally, I would encourage people to not think of firearms as speculative investments. The AR boom has come and gone and AR's, unless collectable, are simply ugly tools whose value is fairly stable. 

Finally, finally, the question always is "is it too late?". That is should one actually buy a Python at today's prices?. I think so, provided you can get something of a deal. Do your research and try to find one that is reasonably undervalued. Then DO NOT HESITATE: go for it and don't look back.

Another thing. If you start accumulating collectable firearms you have to think about storage. Rather than rattle on, perhaps our friends at RIAC could do a piece on that topic.

Thanks for good information guys/gals.

More on the Contender

OK, enough about Politics for a while.   Recently, I wrote a bit on my fascination with the Contender and it seems that my observations struck a cord.  I've gotten a number of nice messages on the subject and I thought that I'd amplify a bit on my experiences.  


First off, I got my first frame (Easy Open) a few years ago in .44 mag.  I wasn't sure what I was getting into but I loved it.  Today I have five frames (old original Contender.  Some easy open, some converted, some not so easy open) and a bunch of barrels.  "What barrels"  you say?  Well, take a look:

10"	.30 Carbine
14"	.17 HMR
14"	.22 LR
14"	.204 Ruger
10"	32/20 Winchester
10"	7-30 Waters
10"	.445 Super Mag
10"	.45 Long Colt/ .410
10"	.30-30
12"	.17 Ackley Bee
10"	.222 Remington
10"	.22 LR
10"	.223
12"	.22 WMR
10"	.22 WMR
12"	.357 Magnum
10"	5 mm Remington
14"	.17 HM2
10"	.44 Remington
10"	.357 Max/magnum

Nice little collection.  Honest to God, I'd love to say that I bang away with all of them but, truth be told, I bought a few "just because".   Come on now, a .17 Ackley Bee?  Before you .17 Ackley Bee guys kick ass, let me say that I intend to shoot it, it just isn't at the highest point of my list and there are only so many hours in the day.  

At the moment, I am riveted by two calibers: the .17HM2 and the .204 Ruger.

This is the steel frame in .204.  Neat.  Only problem is that the grip is a bit too small for my hand.  Not a big issue since I use it from a rest or bipod.  


A note on optic:  I have an NCStar rice rocket on this piece.  I gotta say that for ~$40 from Amazon I have to wonder about the sanity of someone who would go out and spend half a grand for a sight picture that is indistinguishable from this one.  Hell, if you're worried about the damn thing breaking, buy four of them.  Buy ten for Chrissakes.  It's still cheaper.  Slam it on your Contender and use the cost difference to buy another frame or a couple of barrels.  If you're worried about fashion go watch Project Runway and leave firearms to guys who look for functionality at reasonable cost first and whether the name is "right" second.  

So ... the Ruger .204.  I've shot it a couple of times now, nice muzzle blast.  Not quite as "interesting" as a .223 but it certainly gets the attention of anyone to your side.  The target shows 10 shots at 100 yards.  Rest, naturally.  


I stand by my notion of shooting being "Loud Zen".  There is only one problem:  when you pay a buck for every flyer, it is tough to be real mellow.  There is a solution, though.  Next time I'll discourse on why rim fires are the preferred calibers of the Zen masters.


Share your Contender thoughts Amigos, I am waiting.


Till next time ...


MJ

"Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot rifle, he likely knows how to use it."

Actually, that fine quote should read:

Pay heed to the man who carries a single shot weapon,
he likely knows how to use it

 Today we are going to consider the idea of waste and why Crockett and Tubbs should be hunted down and eliminated.

In the day a man knew how to shoot.  He'd pick up a weapon, draw a bead and the story was over.  Think about it, the 1903 Springfield was used in at least three of our wars and compared to modern firearms it might as well have been single shot.  Guys could shoot.  Civilians could shoot.  We shared a connection all the way back to the murderous Kraut bastards that created the Western firearms ethos in the 14th century.  "Make every shot count", "don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes" and so on.  Men with a purpose: squeezing off shots.  Considered shooting one might call it.  Even with the advent of semi-automatic arms,

Enter Crockett and Tubbs.  We do have a bit of a debt to them.  Thanks to Miami Vice a certain grittiness, a welcome grittiness if you are a guy, became the norm on TV cop shows.  They get a couple of points for that.  Where they loose points is with their championing of what I call Ethnic Sideways Shooting or ETS for short.  See, Crockett and Tubbs had a raft of bad guys to deal with but just as they couldn't be normal schlub cops, their adversaries had to be extreme in the other direction.  They had to sneer, they had to look threateningly ethnic and they had to shoot sideways.  You might not remember the impact of this on the guy community. 

 "Shit!!!! You see that !!!!  That damn greaseball was holding his piece sideways!!!!  YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!  It's just WRONG!!!"

Naturally, every real life lowlife followed suit, as did some other folks who should have known better.  Every moron who had a semi automatic handgun held the damn thing sideways as they emptied their magazine into parts unknown.  Now, they not only hold their piece sideways, they have a good foot of boxer shorts showing above their belt.  Thanks Crockett.  Thanks Tubbs.  You are responsible.

Here is a picture of an idiot holding a firearm sideways.  Just so that there is no misunderstanding.

Let me be clear on one point.  If I feel that my life is in jeopardy, I am in favor of sending many pounds of lead downrange in as short a time as possible. The trend now in many places is to not only hold firearms sideways but to pollute distant berms with devilish mixtures of copper and lead and other stuff in mass quantities delivered with remarkable speed.  The term is, I believe: "Spray and Pray".  Apt.  This has had an effect on me and on many others.

Over the past couple of years I've bought a lot of guns.  But what I have bought the most of are Old Model Thompson Contenders.  I now own 5 frames and maybe 25 barrels.  Why?  Because shooting a single shot is like a loud form of Zen: it helps me relax.  It is considered destruction.  It is the antithesis of what that moron in the picture above does.  It is civilization as opposed to anarchy.  So, what am I shooting?  Couple of things, 204 Ruger, 17HMR and the 17HM2.  Think about the .204 Ruger for a minute.  If I shot at your nose when you were standing 300 yards away from me, that bullet would only have to arc 4.2 inches above the point of aim.  Put another way, I could shoot thru a 300 yard 6" drainage pipe and not touch the sides.  Pretty flat.    Here is a shot of the .204.  The barrel and frame are stainless.  The scope is a 3-6x NC Star which is surprisingly nice and a tremendous value.

These are fun calibers, things that make a noise, wreck havoc at the other end and don't break the bank doing it.  Now, the Old Model Contenders have a bit of a limitation.  As I recall they are not warranted to handle pressures north of 30k psi which means that the .308 and more powerful cartridges are out.  I'm over it.  You can pick up frames for $300 or less, particularly when bought with a barrel and the cost of individual barrels is laughable.  Even stupid, arrogant, nasty eBay allows the barrels to be auctioned off (think they are smelling the cash that Gun Broker generates?).  Now, shooting a single shot pistol is not everyone's cup of tea.  You'll be on your first box of ammo when Mr, Cool, above, opens his second crate but you will be one calm SOB at the end of the day.   That's a firm guarantee from the Sandman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side_grip

http://www.chuckhawks.com/204_ruger.htm

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/board,24.0.html

ATI 1911 in.45 ACP - A Commentary

There are a few rules about Guy Stuff that I will impart as we go along.  The first one is that a Guy cannot own too many firearms.  A subset of this rule, a clarification so to speak, is that a Guy cannot own too many of one type of firearm.  What do I mean by this?  Simple. When it comes to guns get 'em and keep 'em and if you come across one that is like one you own, get it anyway.  Case in point (and a clever segue to the matter of this entry) the venerable Model 1911.  Now, if you wonder what that is and are hoping that you will find an explanation a few lines down just get the hell outta here.  Leave.  Now.  Jesus.  Who the hell would be coming to a site about Guy Stuff (says it right on the top for Chrissakes) and not know what a Model 1911 is?

Anyway, I own a total of four 1911 type firearms.  A Series 80 Gold Cup, a Colt Defender, an German .22 and, the subject of this little write up, an ATI 1911 replication.

Now, any Guy can tell you, particularly if you have visited SHOT this century, that the number of manufacturers making 1911's might, and I say "might", only be exceeded by the number fabricating AR style platforms.  10,000?  35,000?  Just funnin' ya.  There are a lot though and the quality is reasonably good.  Recently I came across an interesting version.  It is imported by American Tactical Importers (ATI) from the Philippines  .  "Hey, where the hell are you going with this, Cobb?  The bloody Philippines?  Don't they make everything out of Teak there?  Who the hell wants a Teak 1911?  What are you playing at?  You trying to kill me?"

Ease up there, private.  I thought the same damn thing.  Philippines, Teak, Shoes, graft, Monsoons.   This one is made by an outfit with the silly sounding name "Shooters Arms Manufacturing".  Ever notice how names in the far east always sound like what they are?  Anyway, this outfit makes weapons for the military and they seem to have the bases covered.  The copy I got felt like the original and sounded like it too when I cycled the slide.  At the range I put about 500 hardball rounds through it for an informal workout.  I had a couple of jams early on but as the parts went through the final fitting that every auto goes through when you first use it, the jams stopped.  Damn "clunk clunka chunk" noise didn't though.  That's a good thing since if it didn't sound like a washing machine rolling down a hill it wouldn't be a 1911, right?

Here's a picture from the ATI site:

It's a 1911.  Hell, what is the point of even having a picture?  Finish is a powder coating that seems durable.  The trigger seemed a bit tinny to me and the mag is all you would expect from a far eastern manufacturer in the 1950's, ie. flimsy crap.  The grips are some sort of weird, red far eastern wood that, frankly, gave me the creeps.  That said, the damn thing patterned better than my Gold Cup with the same ammo at the same distance.  

WTF?  

Seems like what they did, smartly IMHO, is to cut a few corners on things that the average shooter is going to monkey around with anyway.  You keep wood grips on your 1911 if you are into pain, most of us have a favorite mag manufacturer that we keep in business and a trigger job is cheap and almost always called for.  With this 1911 you might want to save some money short term and see how the trigger out of the box is.  Mine was crisp and, frankly, for the money I am not sure that I would do anything to this weapon.   The fit and finish is generally excellent.  A word on costs.  As of today I see it hovering around $400-$415.  Jesus Christ surfing on John Browning's corpse!! This is a must buy.  Get out there and get one.  Thank me later.

Now, all that said, no one here is dumb enough to think that for $400 you are going to walk away with a Colt quality firearm, right Amigos?  This thing is a serviceable, seemingly reliable weapon that you can throw in your Go-Bag with out feeling like you just took $500 off the value because it got scratched.  In many ways it is an authentic .45 since, like it's service issue forebears, it is not only made (and priced) to take a beating, it actually expects it.  Mine is a Government replication but it comes with a shorter barrel, carved hammer and the usual useless alterations.  Pay yer money, take yer choice.

I'll be checking in on this weapon as time goes on.  You guys share your thoughts too.

Adios.

MJ

References

http://www.americantactical.us/939/detail.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/colt-1911-history/